Monday, June 8, 2009

Chuckleheads on Youtube...

***Updated tonight at 1032pm***

So about two years ago I stumbled across the following video on Youtube:

10 questions that every intelligent question must answer

It's an excellent video pointing out some of the more glaring problems with christianity and the christian faith in general. The video is associated with the ever popular and

And it was with a sense of mirth that I stumbled across this next video which seeks to refute the original video and fails miserably to do so.

Now I comment, rate and favorite videos pretty often and I am occasionally guilty of spouting off some bullshit for no good reason. I've reviewed some of my comments and found them hasty, tacky, stupid or incoherent but its pretty rare that anyone actually bothers to reply.

Not so today, dear readers. The creator of the video got a little nasty with me about the issue so I will post my original comment and his replies in chronological order for your amusement.

Toledosteal: (that's me) Failed to answer question #1. If running the universe involves miraculously healing SOME ailments then on at least one occasion this would require healing an ailment that is outside the scope of the human immune system/genetic inability to regenerate limbs.

You can't say god heals sick people without healing amputees because sometimes sick people get better on their own. The point is that miracles do not happen or amputees would spontaneously heal if god wanted them to. Ass

Reply #1

Patrickdunnevant: ///The point is that miracles do not happen or amputees would spontaneously heal if god wanted them to.///

Well, that's a very important final clause: "if god wanted them to."

Suppose he doesn't. What does your argument do then?

Riposte #1 (from me)

Very simple, I suppose god doesn't want to heal people despite infinite power/skill/intelligence on his part.

That makes your god a giant asshole answerable to every second of human misery throughout existence. I am glad your god doesn't exist because if he did then all of 'his creation' would be a giant nightmare for a few years and then an eternity of obesiance or agony.

Lucky for us rational folk you guys are wrong.

Reply #2

Then I suppose you are also a "giant asshole", too. After all, what in the world are you doing to fund research that would help amputees? Are you doing everything in your power to help people like that, or are you sitting passively on the sideline?

You certainly can do a great deal to help, but I suppose you merely "don't want" to make that extra financial commitment, right?

You evil, evil person.

***(part 2)

I got an idea. How about, instead of blowing up propane tanks like an idiot, you donate that money you used for destruction to a medical technology organization instead?

Riposte #2

Three things:

You're being spiteful instead of turning the other cheek.

I don't donate money to fund amputee healing research but I have donated bone marrow 4 times in the last 3 years. It hurts like an unholy bitch slap and I am sore for a month afterwards but its something almost anyone can do to help.

Also I am not an omnipotent deity. If I were then I would certainly do everything in my power to fix this rotten mess of a planet, end human suffering and prove how lame your idea of god is


Also every time I reply to your comments I am adding a 1 star rating to this video. Just doing my part for the greater good.

Updated comments here:

Reply3:How am I being spiteful in pointing out the obvious conclusion of your argument? And perhaps you should check out Matthew 23.

Well, that's a start. But there's still a great deal that you obviously COULD be doing. And since you aren't doing all of that, you are therefore evil by your own logic. It doesn't matter that you're not omnipotent. That doesn't mean anything. What matters is that you COULD do something, and you choose not to. Evil.

Out of curiosity, how would you "end human suffering?"

Part2: (pretty frickin' annoying how short 500 characters really is)
Thanks for admitting that you're the atheist equivalent of a creationist votebot, Toledosteal. At least you're honest in spite of your despicable evil nature.

Right? Or will you renounce your argument?

Riposte3: Calling me an idiot and a destructive time waster (propane tanks cost about 5 bucks each) is being spiteful. Calling me an asshole for any reason is spiteful.

I am doing something vital for humanity, not for amputees but for people that need help via a healthy blood forming system I am there.

By calling me evil you are also calling god evil, you're really to lump in the big guy just to take down a random youtube atheist? I am human, not evil. You and everyone else is evil by that logic too.

Part2: I'm not votebotting, I told you I only vote when answering your replies. That's what ratings are for. And I believe in honesty which is why i disbelieve in your and every other god. Also, to end human suffering would be simple, meet all human needs and ensure justice and fairness for all people.

If you're omnipotent how F'in hard would that be? The fact that your god would send a single soul to hell is proof beyond doubt that god is invented by people. Because only people could be so cruel

Part3: Also, the 500 character format is impossible to respond adequately. Send me a PM and we can take it to long form email if you care to continue this.

Reply4: What ratings are for is to give your opinion about the video in question, not to continually do in such a way as to lower the overall ranking. You are indeed votebotting.

How would you "meet all human needs?" Would you put everyone in a world and make it impossible to do bad things? Where does free will fit into the equation? How would you ensure justice and fairness for all without, say, divine judgment, which you seem to take issue with, or removing human will entirely?

It's not that simple.

Riposte5: Your logic was to apply my argument about GAWD to ME, a non-omnipotent human. That is where you seem to be missing the point.

And all I admit is that everyone on earth is human. Your deity is remarkably human as well. So how about instead of your little false dichotomy strawman I conclude that because god shares the characteristics of man he/she/it must in fact be human.

Reply6: The fact that God is omnipotent means absolutely nothing in this argument.

Your argument is still that because he isn't doing everything he possibly can to stop evil from happening, he is therefore evil. Using subject substitution, because YOU aren't doing everything in your power to stop evil, you are also evil. Though an omnipotent being could do much more than you could, the fact that you're doing practically nothing says a great deal.

Back up your claim about how God is "remarkably human."

I cannot comment because I guess there's a limit on how many times you can comment in a certain period of time to cut down on spam/trolling so I'll wait a bit and see how that goes.

Oh good its back on, things are getting a bit muddled now but i'll keep it chronological.

Riposte6: Omnipotence is a key factor because unlike me god doesn't have needs/a job/a wife that take up time. If he has infinite power he should be able to manage creation and still have infinite power left over for extra stuff.

If I had infinite power I would cure every disease RIGHT NOW. I would even cure your inability to think critically.

What are you doing that's so great for humanity? You think you're saving souls by making youtube videos? Really, what else you got?

(response to the jab about being a votebot)
Ratings are there to indicate quality and in your case lack thereof.

You wouldn't have to take care of everything just the basics of biology and education. If someone tries to commit a crime you don't let them carry it out, if they try to rape you prevent it and fix whatever psychosis they have to cause that behavior in the first place.

The only reason faith is exalted by you theists is because a real god wouldn't need it. Without a real deity you HAVE to have faith because it's all fake.

Spicy stuff, right? I hope that C word replies because I would love to eviscerate him without the constraints of 500 character nonsense and filet his brain for the entertainment of my 3 loyal fans. (Mary, Veko and Nats you guys rock!)

Also I did check out Mathew 23 and there's an awful lot of shit to wade through. This verse caught my eye for Irony's sake.

27AX)">(AX) "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are likeAY)">(AY) whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people’s bones andAZ)">(AZ) all uncleanness. 28So you alsoBA)">(BA) outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full ofBB)">(BB) hypocrisy and lawlessness.

********End update

That's the state of things right now.

Here's what cracks me up about the whole thing from the outset. This chucklehead patrickdunnevant decides he's going to refute the video but just dodges questions, ignores facts and distorts reality throughout.

For example in 'answering' the first question he basically says "well yeah god coulda fixed them amputees but he don't want to"

But the author of the reply video also talks about how medical professionals believe in miracles and all this crap just like he does. While I am highly skeptical of the reliability of his statistics he puts forth the claim that 3/4 doctors believe in miracles.


Now as the son of physician I can argue that even in the deep dirty south it is unlikely that 3/4 doctors believe that god lends a hand during surgery or highlights deformities during xrays or anything like that. If you lump in nurses, aides, reception people and sales reps for the big pharm then I have no doubt you'd be a lot closer.

But patrickdunnevant ignores the simple, inescapable premise of the original video. Amputees are never healed spontaneously, there is absolutely no current method of a human reproducing or regenerating a limb.

Humans however CAN naturally recover from stuff like Cancer, heart disease, kidney stones, tumors, difficult births etc. But NOT amputation.

The claim that miraculous healings have occurred when it comes to stuff like Cancer, heart disease, kidney stones, tumors, difficult births etc is a moot point because there is some probability that the body will win a few of these battles despite a grim prognosis. If anyone ever regenerated a limb that would be darn near miraculous.

But it has never happened and without some advanced medical technology to bump things along will never happen in reality. We as organisms simply do not possess the means or ability to regenerate an arm or a leg. It's a fundamental part of our biology just like we can't breathe underwater or fly through the air.

"But god COULD do it, he just don't want to..." This is not an argument. God could have prevented the holocaust but he didn't not because he is evil or lazy or impotent but because he is IMAGINARY.

There's no getting around it and if patrickdunnevant had half brain he'd stop rationalizing his way into looking like a tool and figure that out.

Also if anyone was curious about his comment about blowing up propane tanks he was referring to the these:


Mary said...

They think humans are awful then compare us to God. How can they judge God using humans as a criteria, as they do when saying, "You don't do all you can to heal amputees and you're not an asshole, so God isn't one either." Or is it, "You don't do all you can to heal amputees, so you're an asshole,too." Are they really willing to accept that God is an asshole?

Veko said...

What I want to show you is really long, so I'll just give you the link to it.

It sums up, pretty well I'd say, the reason that I, as an atheist, could never support the Christian god.

Also, I've given up on being an atheist on Youtube. In about 20 days my most recent video has gotten 7 views. X.X

Seth said...

Mary: Excellent point, one that bugged me quite a bit as it is so flimsy it's not worth even getting into.

If I had the power to create a universe I would have taken a much more active role in taking care of my little replicators of all species.

Veko: Awesome link man, truly terrifying what people believe.

Also, what's your YT name so I can go watch your videos?